Diana:
Welcome to the Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters podcast. Here, you will find a safe space to learn and grow with leaders in education, Disability Studies, disability, advocacy, and diversity, equity and inclusion conversations. Specifically, we look at how disability fits into diversity, equity and inclusion, and how to frame disability awareness. In the context of educating K through 12 communities, this podcast serves educators, parents, and community members who strive to learn and or teach about disability in a research-based and respectful way. Moving beyond simple awareness and diving into inclusive and socially responsive conversations. Thank you for joining us today. Now let's go Beyond Awareness.
New Speaker:
Welcome back to Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters. I am so excited to have one of my dear friends and mentors, somebody who has been with me throughout my transformation and who has mentored me through my transformation from traditional disability awareness to looking at disability awareness from a perspective of disability studies based in research. I am so thrilled to have Michelle, Dr. Michelle Nario-Redmond, here with us today to share. Michelle, welcome. And would you please give our listeners a little bit of an introduction so they know who you are, why you qualify to be here talking with us today, and what your passion is.
Michelle :
Well, thank you for inviting me, Diana. It's always great to be with you. I have been a professor of psychology, social psychology and disability studies. Since the late nineties, when my daughter Sierra was born, and she's turning 26 this next month, it was really her entree into our lives about 26 years ago, that made me aware of how, what I had been studying for years, stereotypes and prejudice, as they affect the lives of families and of students who are from disadvantaged groups, was missing an essential piece around people who experienced cognitive and physical and other forms of disability. And so it was nice in a way, because we both learned together. I learned about the disability studies literature, how I could begin to do some research related to disability identity and how to measure what people think about disabled people in terms of their overgeneralized impressions or stereotypes.
Michelle :
And at the same time, help her grow up with a positive sense of who she is to not be ashamed that she experiences disability, and spinal bifida in particular, and to grow up as a proud to save old woman who's a part of a much broader community and culture. So yes, I've been teaching at a small undergraduate, primarily liberal arts college for about 15 years. And you and I met, I can't remember now, it's been so many years because I reached out to you. And I was interested in working with my daughter to bring disability as part of multicultural awareness to her elementary school. And you were doing disability awareness, and you were so gracious and generous. You didn't know me from Adam. I was living on the west coast in Washington state. And you said, well, why don't you just come down to San Diego and I'll show you what I do. And you can tell me some things. And then we met.
Diana:
You know, I just have to acknowledge you. When I was in my quest, I was wanting to do better for my school and for my students. And you had a vast collection of research results that you were so gracious and generous with me about, and you went over my writing, you went over my teaching, and you gave me constructive feedback, which was so valuable, still is super valuable to me. So I thank you for that. But one thing that you didn't mention in your introduction was that you also authored a book. Do you want to share a little bit about Ableism?
Michelle :
Yes, so I published this book at the end of 2019 and it was my first solo project and I never thought I had enough material to generate my own book. But I had forgotten that I had been hoarding all of these amazing readings from the insider's perspective on living with various disabilities, from being young and what that's like, to being someone who may have acquired a disability due to an accident, or maybe was born with some condition like your brother, Joaquin. And so I realized that, that I was sitting on a gold mine and that I could really bring disability studies into psychology. And so it took a good four years to pull this book together. And now it's out there in the world and I've been able to do some keynote talks. And it's one of very few books on ableism that synthesizes what we know from the empirical social science literature on, you know, when attitudes are harmful, and what stereotypes people hold of people who have varying conditions and when they differ, and how we pity people, or maybe intend to be kind to them in ways that end up being kind of patronizing.
Michelle :
And and so I thought it was useful to pull all of that together. And I had a co-author assist with one chapter on the insider's perspective because she grew up as a woman who experiences congenital blindness, and that's Arielle Silverman. And I just want to give her a shout out because she just recently published her first book and memoir. And I'll send you that title when we finish, but yeah. So it's been great standing on the shoulders of the mentors that I've had, who welcomed me into the fold of this interdisciplinary field, and then to pay it forward to so many people who are now, like you, bringing it to families and toelementary school kids. And I just, I really enjoy our continuing relationship.
Diana:
Thank you. Well, likewise. So the name of your book is Ableism: The Causes and Consequences of Disability Prejudice. Fabulous, thorough, in-depth look at what ableism means. I wish we could read the whole book on this podcast, Michelle, but we can't today. We have limited time. So can you tell us in general, what is ableism for those who may not have ever even heard the term ableism? What is it?
Michelle :
So similar to racism and ageism and heterosexism, I mean, we all sort of harbor both unintentional misunderstandings and biases just because people belong to a particular group. So when people hear about the group, disabled people, or may meet a disabled person or learn of their disability status, all kinds of ideas come to mind. And some of those ideas are based on experiences that people may have because lots of people do have disabled members in their families, but they're also based on the stories that we tell and the movies that we watch and may in part be based on some fears that we may have in general about our mortality, about our vulnerability to illness, and to decline and aging. And so the book is organized... Well, I'll just say that the, I like to think of ableism in terms of the ABCs of prejudice, which is how social psychologists approach the topic.
Michelle :
For example, the, a stands for aspect or attitudes, which includes things like fear or emotions that you may people may have when they're unfamiliar with disability. And those emotions can include things like pity or even envy, which might occur when for example, you see parking places that are designated for those with mobility impairments and think, well, you know, why do they get the best parking, or why do they get to have extra time on tests? And so the attitudes are important because they're often knee-jerk reactions to ideas about disability that are, you know, hardwired into some of the ways in which we've grown up or learned things. And then there's the B the beliefs that we have, the judgments that we make that disabled people for example, are, you know, the definition of helpless and dependent. And so how can they be helpers? How can they be parents that, how can they be partners or even professionals, if people assume that they are incompetent and limited, or even a sexual, which are some of the top stereotypes that people have about the group. And then there's the beliefs.
Michelle :
So I said, B was for beliefs. It's also C cognition, which is really the, the term that we use for these beliefs. The B stands for behaviors, the behaviors that people level or enact toward other people with disabilities, including excluding them from birthday parties. And maybe for reasons that they can justify like, oh, my house is inaccessible, so I don't want to invite a kid over. And then they're not going to be able to join in. We'll just avoid that. So behaviors like avoidance and exclusion or discrimination and in the schools or in the workplace or other behaviors that may include helping well-intentioned helping that hasn't been requested that can actually make people feel bad if it's assumed that they can't do certain things by themselves. So a lot of the topic relates to these things that we do and think including myself, that that just may be unintentional, but nevertheless have harmful impacts.
Diana:
Thank you, Michelle. So I find it interesting that you said, including yourself. You've written a book on ableism, and yet you've put yourself in a place of authentic self-reflection and saying, I do things, and I know I do too. And so this kind of helps people to relax a little bit when we're talking about ableism in that, okay. I don't have to judge myself. This has been part of the culture that I grew up in. And so instead of judging, I can reflect, and I can rethink, I can shift my understanding. I can try on a new way of thinking and see how that works and what that does for the people in my community and for myself. Yes?
Michelle :
Yes. That's really helpful that you articulated that too, because I do think whenever we're focused on not just describing the sources available, as in which I'm happy to talk more about that when we're trying to figure out things, when we're trying to figure out how to self-improve or how to be less patronizing or biased, or even when we aren't sure when it's happening. We, we acknowledge that we are products of the messages that we get from our families and our friends and our televisions, and that maybe it's just a matter of being a little more mindful and making incremental changes to whatever it is that we're doing in our own local communities in our own classrooms and our own families. So I'll give you a quick example. My two children are Ethan and Sierra. My oldest experiences disability. And so this example reflects how even under the best of conditions, we can inadvertently disable one kid, meaning kind of keep them apart or make them feel lesser than, or make the space inaccessible.
Michelle :
So whenever we go to the grocery store, even though I purchased the most accessible house, I could when I moved here to the Cleveland Ohio area so that she could get into all the rooms, including the laundry room and we had the kitchen remodeled so she could help with dishes and so forth. When we come back from the grocery store, sometimes we know, put groceries away on shelves and don't even think about who really can get to those groceries. So my able-bodied son would run into the kitchen when he was younger and grab a snack and off he went before I could even say, hold up, dinner's in five minutes. My daughter, on the other hand, if I had put something on an upper shelf that she couldn't get to, or if the particular refrigerator with such that she always had to ask to get into it, I would then say, well, why don't you wait until dinner?
Michelle :
And so there came this awareness around my own practices at home that she needed to have her own shelves. We needed to make sure that we purchased a new refrigerator that she could get to. And this is complicated because some people can't just move into a more accessible space. Families, you know, often are living in spaces that they have. And then yet we can still do better to begin to think about, are there certain members of our family for whom there are privileges or access to spaces or opportunities that aren't there for, for other members? And, and can we do something to mitigate that? So, yes, I've made mistakes. I'll even share one more. I teach, in college, these freshmen students in the disability studies class called Freak, Gimp, Crazy Crip. And the title is designed to reflect that many disabled people have reclaimed these terms as signifiers of pride like other minority communities and day I was teaching on the language and how language has changed so much over the years.
Michelle :
And I think it must really frustrate teachers and special education and other services providers, because there's always a new and better term used to refer to things. And I think people sometimes get frustrated that the, that the terms, their professional terms change, and then they're made to feel ignorant about their own field. But I was teaching about how language around intellectual disability had evolved from the early 1800's when we used terms, like really disparaging terms, like moron and imbecile, to describe people with cognitive impairments, all the way up to the sixties where people use the R word. And I'm saying it that way because there's been a campaign to really raise awareness around how hurtful that word can be because it's been used so, so much more broadly to signify anything that's uncool or stupid. And so I was teaching about this and I happened to use the R word in class.
Michelle :
And I was teaching a group of students, who many of whom had IEPs in high school and elementary school. And they let me know, and no uncertain terms, that they were hurt by that. Because we've had professors, you know, reading from Toni Morrison or talking about Mark Twain's use of the N word. And again, you know, this comes up as something that maybe you should rethink in terms of reinjuring students around the language that is hurtful to certain insider groups. And so it was a teachable moment. I was glad that they came to me and I, and I had a moment to reflect on it. And even though it was the topic of the reading, it didn't, I didn't lose any content by, by abbreviating. The term that students let me know was hurtful to them because they had been called the, the R word in the, in the past, and it's still triggered. So it's a constant learning curve.
Diana:
Thank you for sharing that, Michelle. So you mentioned, you know, how Ableism has, how you've been a participant, even in your own home with an ableist mindset. How does ableism show up in our schools? How does it show up in terms of administration? How does it show up in terms of teachers in the classroom? How does it show up among students?
Michelle :
Well, that's a great question, too. And, and from personal experience, but also for reading the patterns that occur frequently across schools and across students with different kinds of disabilities, some of whom are included and some who are segregated or in pull-out classrooms. We see certain themes that keep coming up over and over one is that teachers, I think sometimes, well, we educate teachers separately, still in special education curriculum, as they're preparing to become teachers, as opposed to educating all teachers on the full range of human variability that exists. Because even though we have these specialized occupations for folks that want to work with certain groups of students with disabilities and might want to learn a lot about, for example, blindness and how mobility works, that doesn't mean thatthey're not capable of recognizing that that blindness is so much more than just the lack of sight that, that disability has so much more to do with attitudes and the extent to which people disclude folks.
Michelle :
And so I wish we had programs, and I think there are some, some starting somewhere where teachers are being educated all together, so that what can happen is then when you're in a classroom and you're known to be a student with a disability, instead of the teacher answering your question, the teacher defaults or defers to the resource person, or should the special education person, if they're both in the same classroom as if these are not my kids, these are your kids to deal with. And so I, I see that as an ongoing problem. I see teachers and administrators sort of failing to recognize that students with disabilities can be helpers, can be competent and have all kinds of gifts in addition to challenges. And are we really doing everything we can to draw those out, to give students opportunities, to help their peers, just as we give peers opportunities to be coaches and to support their peers with disabilities.
Michelle :
You know, for example, on field trips, my daughter, you know, they would go to skating rinks, and a lot of kids didn't know how to roller skate. And so they would hang onto her chair. And she became this, you know, popular kid for a moment whereby she was leading the pack and had this stable form of mobility. They would take her out of her chair to seat her with peers for the class picture, assuming that her wheelchair was a sign of tragedy or something that she should be ashamed of, as opposed to including this liberating form of mobility in with the class picture. You know, sometimes she was made to be practicing her PT and her OT outside of the classroom when everyone else was at recess playing, under the presumption, that more therapy is better. And, you know, it really took my advocacy and others telling us to ask questions like, is this therapy reallyimportant to maintain certain functions?
Michelle :
Or is it just designed to make the kid look more average or normal if you will. And we came to the conclusion that she was not able to use her hands when she was dragging her walker around the hallways, just to take you know, a five-minute walk around the room. It wasn't really doing much for her stability or her bone density. And so, you know, instead of lamenting the fact that she was going to be transitioning into a wheelchair, you know, many therapists kept insisting that we do more therapy. And I think that's part of their training too. I think they need more disability studies folks and people with disabilities coming into training programs. I even read studies that talked about how teachers and others, really the lay community in general, have a hard time thinking about special needs when we use the term special needs, as opposed to civil rights. We all have human needs, needs to be, to feel good about ourselves, needs to self-enhance and to long, and needs to understand and make predictions about what's happening next.
Michelle :
And so why are we not focusing on those universal needs? Because even when we, when we frame things in terms of special, I think it does resonate to some patronizing ideas about certain groups having needs that aren't just the same as others that are, that are quite human and human rights based. The other thing I'll share is with respect to peers, I know my daughter wanted, and many of her friends with disabilities just wanted, to be treated like everyone else, not so much that they wanted to be tweaked, treated, quote-unquote, normally, but they wanted to be treated like kids, and they didn't want to be target of unwanted helping or pity or, or even inspiration. So even as late as her experiences in high school, they went on a senior trip where they did a ropes course. And luckily, thanks to a lot of parents advocacy, the ropes course the outdoor camp was pretty accessible and they even was, were able to lift her into a swing like thing where she was rappelling between the trees in her mobility device.
Michelle :
And someone thought it would be a good idea to have the entire class write notes to her, to tell her how inspiring she was for them, those that we were afraid of heights. And I know this may sound, I don't know, unusual, because some people do feel inspired when they meet people who have overcome challenges, or who do things that are unexpected for that group. They're like, wow, I didn't expect you to be able to rappel. And so now I want to let you know that you are a role model for me, but this is an empirical question that I think some students need to investigate. What is it that they're inspired to do when they tell people you're so inspiring for taking the bus downtown, or you're so inspiring because you're here at the prom, or you're so inspiring because you managed to roll up and down a hill at, at college?
Michelle :
Is it that they're really inspired to make change happen in society, like to promote access in their spaces? Or are they just inspired to say they're inspired because they're so unassuming or expecting in competence and their expectations have been exceeded. And so I want to challenge people when they're feeling inspiration to query what it is that they are inspired to do to promote equality and an improved understanding that disability is not a tragic experience. It's, it's a human experience. And it's part of a broader set of diversity characteristics that we can come to include in the curriculum, the multicultural curriculum. And so to answer the other part of your question, teachers and administrators, people that are developing pedagogies and curricula should be thinking about things like doing reports on, if you're studying social movements on the disability rights movement. My son and daughter went to a school where Jewish history was really prominent.
Michelle :
So every student did a project on the Holocaust and they had a list of topics to choose from. And no one, and nothing on the list of topics mentioned the history of disabled people who were first to really be experimented on or sent to the gas chambers and so forth under the, the justification that these were mercy killings at the time. And so my daughter managed to get that added to the list the year that she was writing in high school, on the Holocaust. And then somehow it fell off the list by the time my son was up to do the project. And so I think people need to be much more mindful about disability topics, disability culture, disability arts, disability in sports when doing disability awareness in the schools or multicultural nights. We did several booths where my daughter, we would go and show videos of dancing wheels and of comedians and of jokes that you can tell in sign language as, as a cultural lesson plan for students who would come to multicultural nights.
Michelle :
And I'll tell you where the rubber met the road or the, what do you call that when the people say the pudding? The proof is in the pudding was when kids would come to the booth and be so excited to see people like Robin Williams and famous people with various ADHD and other kinds of autistic spectrum disorder conditions. And, and here there are these popular movie stars and musicians, and then they would disclose, hey, I have ADHD, or my brother has Asperger's or whatever it might be because it became cool. It became something not to be ashamed of. And so all of these kinds of things that you've been spending, I think your life's work on, need to be leveraged in ways that other districts are incentivized and, you know, funds are available to do more. When one in four people in a school or in the population experiences some form of impairment, whether that be anxiety or traumatic stress disorders, or eating disorders, or, you know, physical sensory or cognitive impairments, it's incumbent upon administrators, superintendents, and individual teachers to bring that content to bear. And there's some wonderful content available.
Diana:
Yes. Thank you so much. Wow. That was a lot, but all very important. I want to just go back for a minute to the conversation about language and how ableism plays out through our language. You mentioned historically, you know, imbecile and moron, and then the R word and special needs. What are some other ways I know this, you sometimes people don't know, you know, they want to bring disability into their diversity and equity and access and inclusion work, but they're not sure how to talk about disability. There is a certain level of discomfort. Am I saying it the right way? Am I going to offend somebody? Am I going to sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. Am I being ableist? So what are some, I know in the book, you have a lot of examples and explanations about language and what types of language we should choose to use and be mindful of. Can you share a few more examples?
Michelle :
Sure. And remember, this is a moving target too. So language is dynamic and it is the way in which we begin to change the norms. By the way, we talk about things by what becomes funny or not so funny in the future and people pushing back and saying, you know, here's how I would prefer to be referred to. And so the number one thing to keep in mind is to ask people, how do you like to be addressed. You know, within the trans community, within all kinds of communities, people have differing preferences. Some people still prefer person with a disability like people-first language, or, and some have claimed disability as a proud group membership. So they want to be referred to as a disabled person. But with that said, you know, I think we've made some progress. There are certain industry standards now for journalists that are actually being people are being held accountable for saying things like they're confined to the wheelchair, or they're bound to their wheelchair.
Michelle :
We've heard this so much that people just take it for granted that that's how you're supposed to talk about it. It's just an availability comes right off the lips, but clearly people aren't being tied to their wheelchairs, many get up and down. And even those that are using their chair 24/7, you know, it's dehumanizing to think about people being confined to a piece of equipment that is often liberating for people. I had a colleague in the disability arts movement who wanted to reclaim the word lame. It hasn't been accomplished yet. We still use the word lame to refer to things that are, you know, socially uncool. And, and so reminding people and saying, you know, have you thought about how that might be problematic? And what makes you say that? Or even just asking the question, you know, what, what brings you to have that kind of attitude when people make certain statements can open up a dialogue?
Michelle :
I'm trying to think of some other terms people often pathologize or say, you know, what's wrong with you. And, and often they're expressing curiosity in kids are, kids are known to be curious. And so many people who've lived with disabilities for a long time. Have a lot of patience with folks who ask questions, especially if the questions are asked in a really interested way that that isn't invasive. And so I know when people have come up to my daughter and I, and asked you know, what's wrong with you, or can you tell me more? I'm interested. You know, we may just use different language to say, well, nothing's wrong with me? I was born, my daughter will say, with this condition called spinal bifida. And sometimes she'll decide to say, you know, I just don't really want to talk about that now at all.
Michelle :
And that's her prerogative, but I think it is sadly incumbent on a lot of people living with disabilities to educate, even though increasingly there are so many more blogs out there helping people with the language piece. And I would refer people to the blogs of those who experience disability when it comes to language-related issues. Because I do see sometimes people who are in the professional fields who think they may know best about the terms that should be used, really still a few steps behind us in terms of what people are saying is most empowering. And even then there are going to be differing opinions. So coming back to asking folks how they would like to be referred to, or even putting it out there, you know, I'm going to, I may say something wrong, please let me know. Let me know if there's a better way to talk about this when you visit my class or whatever it might be, because I think, you know, people just, they can't help it.
Michelle :
That's how they were raised to talk about certain things. Then it's like older generations coming over for Thanksgiving tomorrow, and still harboring terms and attitudes that they grew up with. And we've come a long way, but we still have a lot further to go to raise awareness around the fact that kids with disabilities are growing up increasingly, going to college, having options, being able to participate in disability related sports, or even integrated kinds of activities. And it's really incumbent on us because we are welcoming so many more people with so many varying conditions to our classrooms to get to know who those people are and how they can best be accommodated and included.
Diana:
Yeah. And that's the bottom line. You know, everybody who uses euphemisms uses outdated disability language does. So at least in my experience, most people do it innocently and with the best of intentions, because they want to share that they have an open heart for all people, and they really want to make sure that life is the best it can be for people with disabilities, but at the same time, some of the messages that come out of our mouths, they contradict our hearts' desires.
Michelle :
You know, increasingly in college, I've noticed as I've taught for over 15 years, that people are so afraid to talk about race, to talk about sexual and gender minority statuses, because the generations just don't want to offend. And so what we see is a breakdown of conversation. And so people say nothing or something, we'll say some something inappropriate or hurtful, and they don't mean it. And no one wants to call them on it because they don't want to make them feel worse. Well, I would argue that there's a way to do this, that allows us to plan ahead and get some skills for participating in a global marketplace in the future where we are going to have clients and students and friends and partners with different language skills and with different languages and ways of moving and being in the world. And so I argue that the bystander intervention work the way in which people say, you know, you just said that was so lame, or you just used the R word.
Michelle :
Can I just ask you why you did that? Or, you know, there's a way to bring it up where you don't have to stay silent because research shows if we stay silent because we're afraid to offend others, we actually perpetuate the problem. People are more likely to repeat what they said that was offensive, or that was misunderstanding, when people don't at least question in a kind way, you know, why they think that way. And whether they've heard that there are some other ways of thinking about this and, and that just is all it takes sometimes is seed planting. But I just encourage people to not stay silent and to ask questions and to be willing, to make mistakes and to be willing, to look foolish in the service of improving our own dialogues, our own difficult dialogues around these issues.
Diana:
And just imagine as a classroom teacher or an administrator, what your public stance as a pro inclusion advocate through language, what that says to the students with disabilities, as well as to your non-disabled students, who are the peers and potential advocates for your students who do experience disability.
Michelle :
You know what administrators can do? And this is huge. I've been harping on people referring and finding insider voices to learn from, and you bring people in to the classroom from the community who can share their experiences. But administrators need to remember that there are plenty of disabled teachers and people with disabilities with PhDs that they can bring into their classrooms and universities and social service agencies that will give them perspectives that they may not even realize that they're forgetting about. You know, recently my collegeyou know, we put together alumni magazines and if no one is sitting on the alumni board or of a group, that's planning for the magazine, that's aware of, you know, Black history month, let's say, then we might not be thinking about the fact that the magazine was coming up in February, and we might want to do a story or two, you know, to recognize that a huge swath of our community is African-American, that's why we need diverse perspectives.
Michelle :
It reduces group think and homogenized thinking that fails to recognize that we have customers and clients and potential future, you know, innovators at our disposal that we're excluding when we don't plan for their being at the table. And so administrators need to go into, dive deep, into their recruiting strategies, to find people who are willing to disclose. Increasingly we see this on demographic forms, and that's a good way to make sure the research is including disability status, to ask people if they're willing to disclose their status so that they can take that into account when hiring in a positive way.
Diana:
Yes. And again, from the perspective of a child, to see somebody who works, a teacher that you have, who experiences a disability, that you or somebody that you know and love has, to have that representation present is a powerful, a powerful way to demonstrate the value of all people and the human variability that does exist. And that it's okay, that it is normal and natural. And it's actually great. You know, I feel like I belong here.
Michelle :
Everybody needs role models. We all need role models. And if we don't have African-American faculty and you have 30% of students who are African-American, that is a problem. There are role models out there. And then that's how you break stereotypes by seeing people, or even if you can't bring them in, in person putting your students in touch through visual blogs and other you know, online resources where these amazing people with disabilities have achieved things or created things that then they can realize I could be a teacher too. I may experience this condition. But look, there are people who are lawyers and doctors and partners, and this is possible. That's an ethical responsibility that teachers have to, we call it lately, decolonizing our syllabus, decolonizing our curriculum, to make sure that we're not just continually perpetuating the status quo and the way the people in power tend to look like the dominant group, as opposed to really reflecting the diversity that is our world.
Diana:
Yeah. Dr. Michelle Nario-Redmond. Thank you so much for your time, your energy, your life's work. Thank you for sharing a moment with us and for all these gems that you've given us to think about,
Speaker 4:
You are most welcome, my friend.
Diana:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Beyond Awareness, Disability Awareness That Matters. If this was helpful to you, be sure to subscribe, rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. You can also follow me Diana on Instagram @dianapastoracarson and on Facebook at www.Facebook.com/GoBeyondAwareness. Or you can go to my website for more information at www.DianaPastoraCarson.com. My books include Beyond Awareness: Bringing Disability into Diversity Work in K-12 Schools and Communities, as well as my children's book, Ed Roberts: Champion of Disability Rights. They can both be found on Amazon. For your free Beyond Awareness resource called the "5 Keys to Going Beyond Awareness," simply go to www.GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys. This podcast transcription and podcast guest information can be found in the show notes. Intro and outro music has been provided courtesy of Emmanuel Castro. Thank you again for joining me. Be well, be a lifelong learner, and let's be inclusive. See you next time.
New Speaker:
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