Diana Pastora Carson:
Hi there. Thank you so much for joining me today. Before we get started with our amazing guest, I wanna tell you about a brand new disability awareness educators guide that I am so excited to announce. It's published through National Professional Resources Inc. And it's a trifold laminated Beyond Disability Awareness: An Educators Guide that really takes everything that you will find in my books and on the podcast, and just gives you...It's kind of like Cliff's Notes of disability awareness in a way that's respectful and founded in research and a social justice lens. So if you're interested in checking it out, you can go to DianaPastoraCarson.com/store, and you'll find a link there. Now, let's get started.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Welcome to the Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters podcast. Here you will find a safe space to learn and grow with leaders in education, disability studies, disability advocacy, and diversity, equity and inclusion conversations. Specifically, we look at how disability fits into diversity, equity, and inclusion, and how to frame disability awareness in the context of educating K through 12 communities. This podcast serves educators, parents and community members who strive to learn and or teach about disability in a research-based and respectful way, moving beyond simple awareness and diving into inclusive and socially responsive conversations. Thank you for joining us today. Now let's go beyond awareness.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Beyond Awareness Disability Awareness That Matters. I'm excited today to have Maya Chupkov here with us today. Maya is a writer and storyteller whose work is rooted in social justice and narrative shift. Yay! I love narrative shift, Maya! As a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate, working to shift societal norms around stuttering and the disability community. She is also the podcast creator and host of Proud Stutter, which I recently discovered and am so excited to share with my listeners. So welcome, Maya. Yeah, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to be here. Likewise. Thank you. So tell us about yourself. Tell us about your life, your passions, and about your podcast.
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, so I guess what I most identify with is I'm a storyteller at heart and I'm also a community builder. I feel like the people that I've surrounded myself with over the years has been such a powerful force in finding my own self-confidence. And so that's really what Proud Stutter is all about, is just giving back and really trying to build like a community. But because that's really what I was missing my entire life as a person who stutters, I felt very isolated growing up, and I felt like I couldn't really form a lot of connections with people throughout my life because I was constantly hiding such a big part of myself. And a lot of that had to do with seeing just negative portrayals of stuttering on TV and film, and it just, I just kept seeing these negative portrayals, and so it just made me wanna hide stuttering more and more. And so now that, you know, I've worked a lot on my confidence and I've, you know, I feel like I'm strong enough to start really bringing more awareness around stuttering so people can feel less alone in stuttering, and that they can tap into this community that is really for everyone, for people who stutter and even those who don't stutter that might be connected to it in some way, whether you're a parent or a friend of someone who stutters, that's really what Proud Stutter is all about.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Maya, when and how did you come to that place of acceptance and even pride about who you are as a person who stutters?
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, so I went 29 years with not talking about stuttering at all publicly. I would bring it up here and there with friends and I've been with my fiance for almost eight years now, and I've always been very open with him about my stutter because one of our first conversations was actually around stuttering. He used to have a stutter as a child. And so I just always felt very comfortable talking about stuttering to him. And he's always been so curious about my stutter. Like, he's always like, oh, why did, why'd you stutter a lot in that situation and not that one? And he just always has been very curious about it. So he actually had the idea of doing a podcast around stuttering, and so he was kind of the , he kind of put that thought in my head, and then I kind of just started running with it. And the more I would kind of start opening up about my stutter, the more I felt that I was really making true connections for the first time. And it really just spiraled after that. I just kept getting more positive feedback from, from people the more I opened up.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Wow. I didn't realize that you just dove right in head first.
Maya Chupkov:
Yes. ,
Diana Pastora Carson:
That took a lot of courage to do that.
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a wild ride for sure.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. You know, many of my listeners are educators who are always looking for ways to ensure that they're providing nurturing and accessible classroom and campus spaces for all of their students. Do you have any examples of times when teachers or other staff on campus were not helpful to you or even hurtful? And then, you know, that scenario versus examples of times when teachers or other campus staff were helpful were nurturing and supported your confidence and self-acceptance, responded in ways that were nurturing and supportive.
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, so one memory comes to mind around the non-supportive . Yeah, stuttering didn't ever really come up in middle school and high school, like, it just wasn't something I ever talked about with teachers. And so...so yeah, there was a lot of disconnect, especially when public speaking was involved. Generally I would, I would get lower participation points when that was a thing in a class because I wouldn't be speaking up enough. So that's one area where I wish teachers would, you know, if there, if participation was a big part of the grade or at least even a little bit, I wish at the beginning of the school year that they would've been like, all right, so participation is 5% of your grade. If you want to talk about, there's different ways you can participate. You know that there's a lot of different disabilities out there, I wanna have that conversation with you.
Maya Chupkov:
Just opening up that space to like allow me to feel comfortable enough to go to a teacher would've been really helpful. When I was learning different languages, that was the biggest, that was where my stuttering would, would come up the most is when I was learning different languages because speech was very hard for me in another language. And that's usually when my stutter would pop up more. And so much about learning a new language is practicing and having those oral exams. And I would just do so poorly on those exams because I just stutter through all the oral type of activities. And so that is one area, if there's any, you know, different language teachers out there listening, I think that's definitely something that I think it's great to be aware of is you might have someone in your class that has a stutter and they may not do as strongly on those oral exams. So, so yeah. And I, I've had a lot of... I, I have had a lot of experiences positive experiences, but I never really was open about my stutter, so I never allowed for that conversation to happen with, with teachers, unfortunately.
Diana Pastora Carson:
So let's talk language preferences. How do you identify? Do you consider yourself disabled? How do other people who stutter identify. I know you know you're not a monolith, so there are different perspectives. I've heard some of your guests use the term speech impediment while others don't like that terminology. What, in general, are the main concerns about language and how should we as families and professionals refer to people who stutter?
Maya Chupkov:
For me, I have really come to own the identity of disability. At first, I did not think stuttering was a disability, like not. And, and then only when I started really thinking about how stuttering has impacted me throughout my life, and I realized that there were so many instances where I just did not, I chose to not engage with certain things, or certain opportunities I just didn't take because of my stutter. And so in that way, you know, I do, I do own my identity as someone with a speech disability. As you said, that opinion is very different across different people who stutter. And stuttering is such a personal journey and it's so, it's so personal and there's so much trauma I think that comes with stuttering. So certain phrases can just kind of cause memories to surface up. And so sometimes people just don't like certain phrasing around stuttering.
Maya Chupkov:
For me, I, I do like the, the term stuttering because as part of my shifting the narrative around stuttering, we really have to use that word cuz that's a word that people are familiar with. And so, um, I tend to use the word stutter. I'm very neutral around the term speech impediment. I, I, I'm kind of like, that's fine. I mean I don't really have anything against that term. It is kind of negative, but, but yeah, I'm, I'm neutral around that word. But I think, there is, I think it's worth really talking about language and stuttering openly, and I wanna have more conversations around that because it is so personal. And so I wouldn't wanna kind of share that this is how everyone should describe stuttering. I think it, it, it varies and I think we need to have more conversations about it. And what I would say for teachers and those that like engage with people who stutter, just asking questions about their stutter and really trying to make it as individual as possible. And so not generalizing, I think is a good way to go.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Thank you for that clarity, that clarification.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Bell rings to signal ad: Hey there, my friend. Just a quick word with you about some resources that are available. First of all, if you're an educator or a parent looking at disability awareness or diversity, equity, and inclusion work in your school or community, please, please, please make sure to get my free resource: The 5 Keys to Going Beyond Awareness. You wanna ensure that you focus on the right topics and do it in the most respectful and research-based way. So go to GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys to get this resource today. And even if you are not doing any disability awareness or DEI work in your school or community, but you like the topics shared on the podcast, I encourage you to head to GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys so that you can sign up for my emails, which often contain free links and resources related to the topics covered here on the podcast.
Diana Pastora Carson:
And I wanna share that I have several free beyond awareness resources also at my Teachers Pay Teachers store, which is called Disability as Diversity. Also in the show notes, you'll find links to other resources I've created for you to take the message of disability way beyond awareness, including a thematic unit for educators for my book Ed Roberts: Champion of Disability Rights; a very stylish Beyond Awareness tote bag, if I do say so myself; a beautiful journal or notebook whose cover is graced with the amazing Beyond Awareness cover artwork of autistic artist Jack Medved; and some very cool fashionable tops, including a Beyond Awareness hooded sweatshirt, which I'm wearing right now, and a raglan t-shirt.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Finally, just a reminder that with each episode in the show notes, not only will you find the show's transcript or accessibility or just for preference, but I also list books written by disabled authors and other resources relevant to the topics discussed. So check out the show notes for each episode as we learn and grow together in going beyond awareness. (Bell rings signaling end of advertisement)
Diana Pastora Carson:
So for my listeners who are speech and language pathologists, I have a few friends who are speech and language pathologists who are reframing what that means and how they work with their students, in terms of being allies in disability justice and access and inclusion. So I'm wondering if there are any things that in your experience need to change when SLPs are working with students who stutter?
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, my biggest kind of feedback around that is to always, or to approach it as more as goal setting rather than fixing the stutter, and really just when you're beginning to work with a person who stutterers to really ask them upfront like, what do you wanna get out of, you know, our time together? And for some people it might be they want to practice tools to improve their communication or improve their fluency. And then for others it might be that they just wanna feel okay about their stutter and, and so there's, there's really, I think just opening up in that way can be really a powerful and yeah, like you said, there are so many speech and language pathologists who are, it's more around like acceptance and feeling okay with their stutter and how to even stutter more confidently. Like for me, I feel like the more I talk about my stutter and the more I, I like, even in the same space as people who stutter, I feel myself becoming more confident in my stutter. And that can look different for different people. But I think there is this power in like framing it as like, how can I be more confident with my stutter?
Diana Pastora Carson:
Mm. Wow. That...I get tingles. That's such an affirming, um, experience, isn't it? Just,
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, it's, I feel so much more comfortable in my own skin. It's wild. Like, I never, like, sometimes you don't really realize how much, like how much you you're letting go until you start letting it go. It's just, I don't... Yeah, it's very, it's very freeing for sure,
Diana Pastora Carson:
And you didn't even realize how free you were not until you finally are.
Maya Chupkov:
Exactly. Yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Very liberating. Wow. I love that. Thank you so much. So, well, I guess the next question I wanna ask is what do kids, those who stutter and those who do not, need to know about stuttering?
Maya Chupkov:
So what I would say to that is we all as humans have a different way of speaking, and stuttering is just part of that speech difference. And there is no such thing as normal speech. There's, at least in my opinion, that there's no such thing as like smooth talking. Like we all have our different ways of speaking. And my favorite comparison is stuttering is just like an accent, right? Like, sometimes it's hard for us to get our words out. Sometimes it's hard for us, you know, to communicate in this like way society expects us to. And so I would just say that own your speech difference. Like, if you have a stutter, if you have another type of speech difference, own it because that's what makes you unique. And if I didn't have a stutter, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have met all the amazing people I've met from all over the world. So yeah, I, I viewed stuttering as a negative for so long and now I'm just so thankful because it's allowed me to be part of this amazing community.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Hmm. I'm really happy for you. That's beautiful. And how about, I mean I I'm assuming that the same would be true for your message to families and your message to educators. And are there any specific things that families need to know about stuttering or any specific things that you want educators to know?
Maya Chupkov:
I think the big thing that I would want families and educators to know is there are there are holidays around stuttering where you can really, you know, like just let your students know or let your children know about and there's National Stuttering Awareness Week, which is the second week of May every year. There's also International Stuttering Awareness day October 22nd. And that's just a great way to, to get the media and schools and even cities like governments just honor these holidays and recognize these communities. And that in turn will allow people who stutter to see themselves in stories, whether it's in the media or see it themselves. There's all these like awareness months and weeks and I think teachers especially can really use those holidays to just like with, to just talk about stuttering and normalizing it in the classroom. And I've had a few guests on my show who you know, they have never felt comfortable talking about their stutter to their siblings and their parents. And so I think the, the, the more parents can just normalize it even with their own kids, I think the more they'll start to feel that it's okay to stutter and they'll feel more just comfortable in their stutter.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Absolutely. Thank you. Okay. On your website you have a beautiful gallery of verbal diversity artwork and I actually shared the link in a recent email to my email list. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you came up with the gallery idea and what you hope transpires as a result?
Maya Chupkov:
Yeah, so I partnered with a arts college in Pasadena, California called Art Center. And I had heard about them through my full-time time job, which is at this organization called Common Cause. And I was working with them in that capacity. And I was in a meeting with one of the program officers and just mentioned the podcast and she was like, oh, we'd love, she just got so excited about it and she's like, we want you to, to partner with our illustration students on a project. And so basically in a quick summary, I was working with these students, these illustration students, and they, and I was able to kind of be their client because as they were learning how to work with clients, I was kind of their client for about two months. And so as we were working together, I thought, how cool would it be to showcase their artwork on my website as a way to raise awareness through art because these, these, these art pieces could be used in classrooms and other settings as a way to visualize the stuttering experience in all these creative ways. And so that is really what that gallery is all about. It's about just putting more stuttering and verbal diversity artwork out there so people can start interacting and engaging with that conversation in a new way. So I'm, I'm glad you found it.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Yes. Oh, I love it. And you know, and the term verbal diversity just resonates so much with how I believe about people of all kinds of different, you know, we're just a diverse humanity and so verbal diversity is part of that. And I love that you're bringing that out. And I, one of them stood out to me, especially, it was, I can't remember the name of the artist, but it was "Your unique rhythm is what makes you, you." I love that. Your unique rhythm. We all have our own unique rhythm. So I would encourage my listeners to go check it out because it's, they're really beautiful and they can be used as, you know, posters in your classrooms and such. Are there other resources out there for educators and families that you would recommend?
Maya Chupkov:
Yes. So the, one of my favorite stuttering organizations is called the American Institute on Stuttering. And their speech language pathologists are amazing and they totally fit under this like, amazing, like acceptance is part of the stuttering journey. And so I definitely, and that they also have a blog that has just great content for families and educators. So I, and their acronym is AIS and they're great, and they actually just opened a new office in Los Angeles, which is really exciting because I'm in California too. And then another resource is actually, it's an album and it's called "The Clearing" by Jerome Ellis. And his album is all about his stutter and how he reframes his stutter in this beautiful spoken word poetry type of way. So that is, that, that is just an amazing album that's all about stuttering and so I would, those are my top two. I have a ton more, but yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Well, you know, you could send me your list and I can put that in the show notes so that our listeners can have access to your favorites as well.
Maya Chupkov:
Great.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Okay. Is there anything else that you wanna share about with our audience? And then how can people find you?
Maya Chupkov:
Yes, so the best way to find me is ProudStutter.com. That's where you can find all our episodes, all like a lot of news articles around stuttering. That's where you can find our gallery of all our artwork and that's where social media handles are. So I'm basically proud stutter on all social. So Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube. And if you just search Proud Stutter in any listening app like Spotify, Apple, any of that, it should pop up. So that's how you can find me. And then one thing I wanted to mention too is I, we're in the middle of season two, but I'm starting to plan for season three. And season three is gonna be more of a deep dive around stuttering and it's gonna really focus on people who stutter in California. And a lot of it has to, to do with, because I just applied to a grant from the California humanities, and so I kind of had to make it a California-themed season. But it's really exciting because we're gonna be digging into like bilingualism and stuttering, how like, what it's like to be bi or multiracial with a stutter, like how do different communities approach and receive stuttering. And so we're, um, recruiting guests for that season. And so I kind of just wanted to shout that that out in case you or anyone you know, might fit into that, into that season. So yeah.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Wonderful. What a great opportunity for our listeners who may know somebody and get them involved. Maya, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing your knowledge with us and, it's been a joy.
Maya Chupkov:
Thank you for having me.
Diana Pastora Carson:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Beyond Awareness: Disability Awareness That Matters. If this was helpful to you, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review this show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. You can also follow me, Diana, on Instagram @DianaPastoraCarson and on Facebook at www.Facebook.com/GoBeyondAwareness. Or you can go to my website for more information at www.DianaPastoraCarson.com. My books include Beyond Awareness: Bringing Disability into Diversity Work in K-12 Schools and Communities, as well as my children's book, Ed Roberts: Champion of Disability Rights. They can both be found on Amazon. For your free Beyond Awareness resource called the "5 Keys to Going Beyond Awareness," simply go to www.GoBeyondAwareness.com/keys. This podcast transcription and podcast guest information can be found in the show notes. Intro and outro music has been provided courtesy of Emmanuel Castro. Thank you again for joining me. Be well, be a lifelong learner, and let's be inclusive. See you next time.
